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driver



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PostSubject: Panendeistic God?   Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:34 am

I'm new at this. Does a panendeistic God become involved in his/her creation? Can we tap into this God? Does God know the future or are we creating it with this God daily? Does this God know good and evil or is that left up to humans to figure out? If God is all and more are we God?
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Gnomon
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PostSubject: Re: Panendeistic God?   Thu Dec 17, 2009 11:04 pm

driver wrote:
I'm new at this. Does a panendeistic God become involved in his/her creation? Can we tap into this God? Does God know the future or are we creating it with this God daily? Does this God know good and evil or is that left up to humans to figure out? If God is all and more are we God?

I don't know. Why don't you ask him and let us know what the answer is. Smile

One of the basic "rules" of Panendeism is that nobody can tell you, with any authority, what God is like. I know that's a bummer for post-theistic newbies. Crying or Very sad

As a general rule though, Panendeism is like Pandeism in that the only thing we know about Him/Her/It is what we can infer from our observations of Nature. However Pan-en-deism is distinguished from Pan-deism in that the eternal/infinite deity is presumed to be above and prior to Nature, Time & Space. PED also differs from Christian Theism in that the ultimate Being ("I AM") interacts with humans only by way of Nature.*

That latter presumption is based on the considered opinion---eloquently expressed by Thomas Paine---that all self-proclaimed miraculous revelations by God to man are merely the creations of human imagination. Anybody can claim to speak for God, but miraculous powers over Nature are required to overcome our innate tendency to doubt such extravagant claims from ordinary humans.

Unfortunately, magic tricks can easily convince those who lack a detailed understanding of how Nature works. So for doubtful deists, biblical reports of miracles carry no more weight than those in the Egyptian, Greek, or Hindu scriptures. The only thing they cannot doubt, beside the existence of self, is the necessary existence of a First Cause for the temporal world we experience.

That being the case, Deists have no choice but to get their information about the Creator from the creation itself---to know the artist from her art. Human tricks are limited by natural laws, so a scientific knowledge of the expressed Will of God (physics & logic) is our only source of reliable, unfakeable truth.

You could find the answers to your Frequently Asked Questions elsewhere in this forum. But since we don't yet have a FAQ section, a few volunteers will gladly offer their worthless opinions in this thread. Eventually though, you should come up with reasonable opinions of your own. But be advised that some of your favorite beliefs may turn out to be wrong. "The Truth" is for God to know, and for you to find out.


* Nature never lies. People lie like dogmas. Very Happy
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Aaron
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PostSubject: Re: Panendeistic God?   Thu Dec 17, 2009 11:12 pm

driver wrote:
I'm new at this. Does a panendeistic God become involved in his/her creation?
IMO no, but other Panendeists may hold a different view.

driver wrote:
Can we tap into this God?
For that question I would like to refer to this passage of the Tao Te Ching.

6
The Tao (God) is called the Great Mother:
empty yet inexhaustible,
it gives birth to infinite worlds.

It is always present within you.
You can use it any way you want.


Another way to say it is that god is pure free will.

driver wrote:
Does God know the future or are we creating it with this God daily
I think we and everything else in the universe co-create the present. God is the ground by which the process takes place.

driver wrote:
Does this God know good and evil or is that left up to humans to figure out?
Good and evil are dualistic concepts that are for humans to "figure out".

driver wrote:
If God is all and more are we God?
I believe we and everything else in existence are a part of god but that god ultimately transcends existence.

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Sigma



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PostSubject: Re: Panendeistic God?   Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:11 pm

I'd rather think of it in terms of God being everything that exists including all the stuff that may well exist outside of the physical universe including our own awareness and cognition. There most likely isn't one all powerful mind at the centre of everything but I would lean toward the concept that everything is connected somehow and driven towards some kind of purpose of which we form a key part. Seeing the universe seems specially conditioned for the evolution of sentient life and we're the one form of such life that has evolved beyond purely instinctual sentience.
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Aaron
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PostSubject: Re: Panendeistic God?   Wed Feb 17, 2010 7:35 pm

Yes, I agree.

I also see the cosmos as a work in progress. That is, the apparent design in the universe is an emergent phenomena rather than an a priori condition imposed by an anthropomorphic being.

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Sigma



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PostSubject: Re: Panendeistic God?   Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:46 pm

"Thus the universe is not a completed act: it is still in the course of formation. There can be no complete truth about the universe, for the universe has not yet become 'whole.' The process of creation is still going on, and man too takes his share in it, inasmuch as he helps to bring order into at least a portion of the chaos."

That's quoted from an Islamic scholar called Asrár-i Khudí. There's still something to be gained from the Abrahamic faiths providing you ignore the omnipotent anthropomorphic being they all believe in.
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PostSubject: Re: Panendeistic God?   Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:22 am

Good quote!

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Uriah

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PostSubject: Re: Panendeistic God?   Thu Feb 18, 2010 2:16 pm

That is a great quote!

And I don't even mind the omnipotent anthropomorphic being as long we all realize that it is simply an archetype for a much larger facet of our collective unconscious.
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Sigma



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PostSubject: Re: Panendeistic God?   Tue Feb 23, 2010 9:58 am

driver wrote:
I'm new at this. Does a panendeistic God become involved in his/her creation?

It would have to because it is the creation.
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Rob M



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PostSubject: Re: Panendeistic God?   Sat May 01, 2010 1:15 am

I am moving in the panendeist direction, but if all that is, is God, including people, plants, and rocks, it makes sense that one can communicate with God as one would communicate with different body parts. Is it not panendeistic to believe that souls, energy, and matter are all the same energy being expressed differently? We already know that matter and energy are equivalent (E=MC2).
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PostSubject: Re: Panendeistic God?   Sat May 01, 2010 5:44 pm

Well... Our bodies are made of atoms but I'm not really sure that an atom can communicate with us.

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Gnomon
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PostSubject: Re: Panendeistic God?   Sun May 02, 2010 6:12 pm

Rob M wrote:
I am moving in the panendeist direction, but if all that is, is God, including people, plants, and rocks, it makes sense that one can communicate with God as one would communicate with different body parts. Is it not panendeistic to believe that souls, energy, and matter are all the same energy being expressed differently? We already know that matter and energy are equivalent (E=MC2).
According to the new sciences based on Information Theory, everything in this world is made of matter & energy, but then M&E are ultimately made of Information : immaterial mind stuff. That's why I envision the material universe as an idea in the Mind of God. To us it's reality, to God it's imaginary.

Some people use that universal commonality to infer that we should be able to "communicate" with other forms of materialized information, such as plants and ghosts. In my humble opinion though, that unwarranted inference is derived from a misunderstanding of Information Theory, and ignores the difficulties we face in communicating with other speakers of the same human language, not to mention those who "speak" plant languages.

Actually, I suppose what they mean by "communication" is some form of ESP, whereby we "sense" the presence of ghosts, and the emotions of plants. They presume that we all have a sixth sense, or third eye, which can perceive phenomena beyond the range of our physical senses. That may be true, but in practice, such "communication" is usually indistinguishable from ordinary fantasy and fiction. Some people confuse the wordless feelings of ordinary Intuition with extrasensory perception. But it's actually an automatic, subconscious form of reasoning, not supernatural reception.

That's why I remain skeptical of "information" or "communication" that cannot be corroborated by mundane means. I see amazing Ghost Whisperers and Psychic Detectives all the time on TV and in movies. But in real life their alternative means of obtaining information is not reliable enough to be of any practical use. If ESP were more accurate than guessing, every police station would have at least one psychic on staff, and every church would have ghost counselors. Ask yourself, is it more likely that God would grant a few saints the unusual talent of ESP, or that a man would lie about his abilities to gain an advantage?

That said, I have no doubt that I can communicate with God, without saying a word. [after all, like a character in a novel, I am a figment of God's imagination] But God's replies, if any, are also not in words. So, for all practical purposes, it's one-way communication.
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Rob M



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PostSubject: Re: Panendeistic God?   Sun May 23, 2010 11:13 pm

I agree with you; however, I believe with a high enough consciousness, we may be able to see "reality" as well, or at least conjecture at it's structure.
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