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Aaron
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PostSubject: Wuji   Thu Apr 17, 2008 10:42 am

As you can probably tell I've been looking into Taoist thought quite a bit lately. I find that it agrees very well with my own metaphysical view of things.

I came across the term "Wuji" which is pretty much what I've been calling "the Unmanifest".

From wiki...
Quote :
Wuji (無極) is the primordial state of non-being, a state of Nothingness and boundlessness or that which is without Bounds or Limits. Wuji like Tao, is and lies within all of the universe and in the human anatomy. It is the central definition to what Tao is in chapter one of the Tao Te Ching.

The closest conceptual equivalence in western philosophy would be Plato’s allegory of the cave in the Socratic dialogue of The Republic, where Tao or Wuji would be the world outside of the cave, before any forms took shape, before creation. Wuji corresponds to the Lingshan (靈山 or spiritual mountain) in Chinese Buddhism and in the Shengyu (聖域 or sacred territory) in Confucianism. The range of peaks at the top of Neijing Tu is an allegory of Lingshan.

In the Chinese creation story , Wuji took shape and became Taiji, a state of being before creation, the world according to Taoist became intelligible and fathomable after which. Taiji may be equated to the One, Oneness, Unity, in chapter thirty-nine of Tao Te Ching.

    In harmony with the Tao,
    the sky is clear and spacious,
    the earth is solid and full,
    all creature flourish together,
    content with the way they are,
    endlessly repeating themselves,
    endlessly renewed.

    When man interferes with the Tao,
    the sky becomes filthy,
    the earth becomes depleted,
    the equilibrium crumbles,
    creatures become extinct.

    The Master views the parts with compassion,
    because he understands the whole.
    His constant practice is humility.
    He doesn't glitter like a jewel
    but lets himself be shaped by the Tao,
    as rugged and common as stone.


Taiji in comparison to Wuji would be the ultimate truth, the world outside of the cave in Plato’s allegory of the cavern. And Taiji would be the Absolute in metaphysics and in teleology.

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PostSubject: Re: Wuji   Thu Apr 17, 2008 12:27 pm

Quote :
When man interferes with the Tao,
the sky becomes filthy,
the earth becomes depleted,
the equilibrium crumbles,
creatures become extinct.

Is this a quote from the Tao Te Ching or from Mother Earth News?
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Aaron
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PostSubject: Re: Wuji   Thu Apr 17, 2008 2:39 pm

Wink

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Helium



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PostSubject: Re: Wuji   Thu Apr 17, 2008 10:55 pm

I find it interesting as in much early sacared stuff that mankind's position is elevated. Special.

And that this parable is almost eden like.

IN the bible story, adam and eve are tossed out of eden after eating the apple.

In this story, which I suppose could be said to be closer to the actual truth, mankind is not kicked out of eden, but is destroying eden.

Interesting.
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PostSubject: Re: Wuji   Fri Apr 18, 2008 8:57 am

Helium wrote:
I find it interesting as in much early sacared stuff that mankind's position is elevated. Special.

And that this parable is almost eden like.

IN the bible story, adam and eve are tossed out of eden after eating the apple.

In this story, which I suppose could be said to be closer to the actual truth, mankind is not kicked out of eden, but is destroying eden.

Interesting.

Yes, good point.

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PostSubject: Re: Wuji   Sat Apr 19, 2008 5:27 am

Aaron wrote:
Helium wrote:
I find it interesting as in much early sacared stuff that mankind's position is elevated. Special.

And that this parable is almost eden like.

IN the bible story, adam and eve are tossed out of eden after eating the apple.

In this story, which I suppose could be said to be closer to the actual truth, mankind is not kicked out of eden, but is destroying eden.

Interesting.

Yes, good point.

Yes, it is a good point. They are very similar. I would disagree that this story is more closer to the truth though. They both are equal in the sense that they start with the assumption that everything worked in perfect harmony in a state of equilibrium before Man existed and because of this false starting assumption they are both equally false.

Before Man existed the Earth had filthy skies, it became depleted, and creatures became extinct. The Earth has caused good things and bad things. The Earth produces life and produces death. The Earth goes through cycles of creation and destruction. All creatures don't flourish together and are not content with the way they are. They are all constantly struggling against each other for survival and always have been. 99% of all species that have ever existed went extinct before Man and if they didn't we would of never existed. There was never an equilibrium and if there was then there wouldn't be Man. So, when Man interferes with the Tao he isn't taking away equilibrium from the Earth because equilibrium never existed. If we cause there to be an equilibrium then we would be interfering with the Tao.

Man didn't bring death into a world of life! A world of life and death brought Man into the world!
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Helium



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PostSubject: Re: Wuji   Sat Apr 19, 2008 9:11 am

I agree 100 per cent with that, Schitzo.

At the same time, like Aaron, I have a deep respect and appreciation for our predescessors who genuinely sought spiritual truth, and they should be considered as fellow spiritual sleuths, and that the wisdom of the elders should not be too easily shrugged off, especially when it's on their shoulders we stand!
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PostSubject: Re: Wuji   Fri May 09, 2008 2:10 am

Helium wrote:
I agree 100 per cent with that, Schitzo.

At the same time, like Aaron, I have a deep respect and appreciation for our predescessors who genuinely sought spiritual truth, and they should be considered as fellow spiritual sleuths, and that the wisdom of the elders should not be too easily shrugged off, especially when it's on their shoulders we stand!

I agree and I respect whoever it was that wrote that but I don't see how I personally stand on this guy's shoulders since this is the first time I read it.
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