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The Paineful Truth



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PostSubject: Re: Introduce Yourself Here   Mon Oct 08, 2007 5:00 pm

Aaron wrote:
The Paineful Truth wrote:

Aaron, It's not like me to find fault and nitpick or anything (Rolling Eyes), but isn't Truth being true kind of redundant, and being good kind of a (correct but obvious?) value judgment about Truth (it isn't evil) rather than an aspect of its nature?

Hey, I didn't come up with "the good", "the true" and "the beautiful". That was western philosophy.
.

A specific "western philosophy"?

Quote :
I think there's a difference between "truth" (or truths) and "the true". "The true" is just one perspective. If you equate "truth" and "the true" in a reductive way then you could just as easily reduce everything to "the beautiful" or "the good". I mean isn't "truth" and "goodness" beautiful? Or for that matter isn't "beauty" and "truth" good? Wink

That is dependent on what the definition of "is" is, is it not? Think

"The true", if I understand what you mean, is just a piece of the whole Truth. 1+1=2, 2+2=4, and while they are both true, the are just pieces of the puzzle that is the whole Truth that are commonly referred to as both true and truths in their own right.

How is goodness anything more than a value judgement equated with morality by those who honor Truth? Isn't goodness the application of Truth to a code of morality, virute and subjective taste? Truth is "good" for sentient beings, but does the rest of the universe care? IOW, is Truth inherently good/moral, or do we just use it to deduce morality making the assumption that sentient lifeforms are given ultimatle priority (God {Truth}, by His {It's} absence, being left out of the equation)?


(Hmmmmm. I just realized, this is the intro thingy. Sleep [We need a tunnel vision and an asleep at the switch emoticon.])
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Aaron
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PostSubject: Re: Introduce Yourself Here   Mon Oct 08, 2007 7:04 pm

Does this one work? Crap Very Happy

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The Paineful Truth

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PostSubject: Re: Introduce Yourself Here   Tue Oct 09, 2007 2:03 am

I'm sure I wouldn't stick my tongue out in that situation.
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Ninah

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PostSubject: Re: Introduce Yourself Here   Wed Oct 10, 2007 2:39 pm

The Paineful Truth wrote:
Howdy Ninah, welcome to the board. I'm new here too but I transferred my credits from another board.

Please tell us about yourself and what brought you here. More than likely, most of us are here for the same reasons.

HI Smile

I found this site because I was searching for infromation about Taoist Deism. I've been lurking for a while and finally decided to join in. I don't know if I have much to add to the discussions but I enjoy reading.

Ninah Yin Yang
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Helium



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PostSubject: Re: Introduce Yourself Here   Thu Oct 11, 2007 2:32 am

Quote :
Taoist Deism


Uh, oh, you're gonna set paine off with that one lol!
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Wandered Off



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PostSubject: Re: Introduce Yourself Here   Mon Oct 22, 2007 4:12 pm

Another refugee from Dynamic Deism. What's with all these people who start boards on Deism and then go all personal theist on us? Wink Just kidding...

Well, in my version of Deism, I don't see God as a consciousness but a force, and I'm not settled on whether it even has awareness as we think of it. I get no sense that we are being "watched" any more than, say, snails are. I haven't figured out which 'branch' exactly that fits best under, but labels are just little boxes that never quite fit anyway.

Born into a fundamentalist Southern Baptist family, I managed to get over that in college, but I was a rather bitter agnostic for years. I'm still agnostic (aren't we all?) but less bitter, though still occasionally grumpy.

WO
Jerry
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Aaron
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PostSubject: Re: Introduce Yourself Here   Mon Oct 22, 2007 4:29 pm

Hi Jerry. Smile

Wandered Off wrote:
Well, in my version of Deism, I don't see God as a consciousness but a force, and I'm not settled on whether it even has awareness as we think of it. I get no sense that we are being "watched" any more than, say, snails are.


I'm not too sure about the awareness thing either. Afterall are we aware of all the individual cells in our body?

Wandered Off wrote:
I haven't figured out which 'branch' exactly that fits best under, but labels are just little boxes that never quite fit anyway.

Yes labels can be both helpful descriptures used to help us understanding one another and bring us together, or they can be used as dividing lines that seperate. I think it's all about one's perspective and approach which route we ultimately choose to take.

No matter what label you choose to take (or not take), keep an open mind and don't be afraid to change.

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AL

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PostSubject: Hi   Fri Jun 06, 2008 10:56 pm

Boy, I've missed you guys! Its so good to see you all again.

This site is really cool. Functionally, its much more advanced than DD, hey?

I have been head down in a phd the last year, running a practice, and writing a novel. Now I am a thoroughly burnt out shell-of-my-former-self and looking to get some spiritual nourishment again. Cool

Does anyone ever see Dave from DD? Is he still into Zen?

Cheers!
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Helium



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PostSubject: Re: Introduce Yourself Here   Sat Jun 07, 2008 2:59 am

Geez, no, haven't been to his legacy site in a while either.

Sure hope he's doing well.

Cheers. Sounds like ya deserve some R&R
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Aaron
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PostSubject: Re: Introduce Yourself Here   Sat Jun 07, 2008 9:00 am

AL wrote:
Boy, I've missed you guys! Its so good to see you all again.

Hi Al, good to see you again! Smile

AL wrote:
This site is really cool. Functionally, its much more advanced than DD, hey?

Yeah I have the control to change things around a bit more here.

AL wrote:
I have been head down in a phd the last year, running a practice, and writing a novel. Now I am a thoroughly burnt out shell-of-my-former-self and looking to get some spiritual nourishment again. Cool

Does anyone ever see Dave from DD? Is he still into Zen?

Cheers!

Yep he still talks about his Zen practices and his UU adventures on his "Celestial Land Journal".

Feel free to jump in on any discussions (even old ones) and welcome to the forum. Smile

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Paul Anthony

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PostSubject: Re: Introduce Yourself Here   Sat Jun 07, 2008 8:59 pm

Good to reconnect, AL!


AL wrote:

I have been head down in a phd the last year....

Not surprised. I hope you realize that from our perspective, everyone on your part of the globe appears to be "head down". lol!
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stretmediq

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PostSubject: Re: Introduce Yourself Here   Sun Jun 08, 2008 12:08 am

Hi Al! How have you been? Very Happy
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ReinGatto



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PostSubject: Re: Introduce Yourself Here   Sun Jun 08, 2008 10:01 pm

Wandered Off wrote:
Another refugee from Dynamic Deism. What's with all these people who start boards on Deism and then go all personal theist on us? Wink Just kidding...

Well, in my version of Deism, I don't see God as a consciousness but a force, and I'm not settled on whether it even has awareness as we think of it. I get no sense that we are being "watched" any more than, say, snails are. I haven't figured out which 'branch' exactly that fits best under, but labels are just little boxes that never quite fit anyway.

Born into a fundamentalist Southern Baptist family, I managed to get over that in college, but I was a rather bitter agnostic for years. I'm still agnostic (aren't we all?) but less bitter, though still occasionally grumpy.

WO
Jerry

I'm an agnostic too. By force, I'm assuming you mean energy? And yeah, I don't believe that a god is watching me. If he was, I'd flip him the bird every five second. Actually, I guess if that happened then god could be a "Bird-Watcher".

Though if he really wanted to bird watch, he should go to Wal-Mart. I've even spotted Sea Gulls there. scratch
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AL

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PostSubject: Re: Introduce Yourself Here   Sun Jun 08, 2008 10:45 pm

Hi Aaron, Paul Anthony, Stret and Helium.

Stret asked:


Quote :
Hi Al! How have you been?

I have been a bit average to be honest. So, I have decided to make this year a year to maximise my fun potential! I need to connect more with people with similar interests, cos I realise that I am an unconventional kind person, who lives in a regional red-neck area of Australia. There are very few people around these parts who are interested in existential questions. Rather, they say something like this, "Oh, there's no answer to those questions, so I dont worry about them". But that does nothing for my Existential Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. Rolling Eyes So, that's why I've landed here.

How have you all been? Stret, are you still immersed in paramedical work? What happened with your book?

Cheers,
Al.
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PostSubject: Re: Introduce Yourself Here   Mon Jun 09, 2008 2:07 am

AL wrote:
Hi Aaron, Paul Anthony, Stret and Helium.

Stret asked:


Quote :
Hi Al! How have you been?

I have been a bit average to be honest. So, I have decided to make this year a year to maximise my fun potential! I need to connect more with people with similar interests, cos I realise that I am an unconventional kind person, who lives in a regional red-neck area of Australia. There are very few people around these parts who are interested in existential questions. Rather, they say something like this, "Oh, there's no answer to those questions, so I dont worry about them". But that does nothing for my Existential Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. Rolling Eyes So, that's why I've landed here.

How have you all been? Stret, are you still immersed in paramedical work? What happened with your book?

Cheers,
Al.

I've been fine. Sold a few books but I'm not getting rich Sad Still on the streets paramedakin' as we Okies call it (see your not the only one in redneck country).

I know what you mean about EOCD I've got it too. Not the best thing to have in a town that has the worlds largest sculpted hands though. http://www.usdat.us/secretary/archives/Wrong_Hands_3126_sm_1.jpg
I particularly appreciate the sign in front of them in this picture Laughing

I've thought about you from time to time. Glad you landed here.
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AL

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PostSubject: Re: Introduce Yourself Here   Mon Jun 09, 2008 3:49 am

Stret said:
Quote :
I know what you mean about EOCD I've got it too. Not the best thing to have in a town that has the worlds largest sculpted hands though. http://www.usdat.us/secretary/archives/Wrong_Hands_3126_sm_1.jpg
I particularly appreciate the sign in front of them in this picture

Laughing That's precious!!! Too funny.
Quote :
I've thought about you from time to time. Glad you landed here.

I know, same here. I still have your book on my computer (must be an old version though). I did start to read it, but got very distracted with life (ie. phd) which meant that anything a little bit heavy got put to one side. Sorry I never got round to giving you any opinions, etc. I apologize. Life (sigh) you know how it is...
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stretmediq

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PostSubject: Re: Introduce Yourself Here   Mon Jun 09, 2008 4:10 am

AL wrote:
I still have your book on my computer (must be an old version though). I did start to read it, but got very distracted with life (ie. phd) which meant that anything a little bit heavy got put to one side. Sorry I never got round to giving you any opinions, etc. I apologize. Life (sigh) you know how it is...

HA HA HA!!! Thats ok. It is a pretty hard read. Thats the number one criticism of it. I have been working on a more reader friendly version though. I'll send it to you when I have a chance. Just PM me your email address.

Congratulations on your Ph.d by the way. What was your thesis about?
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AL

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PostSubject: Re: Introduce Yourself Here   Mon Jun 09, 2008 4:21 am

Quote :
I have been working on a more reader friendly version though. I'll send it to you when I have a chance. Just PM me your email address.

Haha. Cool. I'll give those details to you.

Quote :
Congratulations on your Ph.d by the way. What was your thesis about?

Oh, no, no. I am taking a break from the PhD. I'm exhausted from taking too many things on at once. What a poindexter! My PhD is about the psychology of religion, specifically differences in thinking styles (rational vs experiential) and tendency towards different types of religiosity/spirituality. I dont know if you remember, but I got people on DD to fill out some questionnaires for me at one stage. Just a little pilot to see if the questions worked.

I'll PM you.
Al.
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PostSubject: Re: Introduce Yourself Here   Mon Jun 09, 2008 4:26 am

AL wrote:
Quote :
Congratulations on your Ph.d by the way. What was your thesis about?

Oh, no, no. I am taking a break from the PhD. I'm exhausted from taking too many things on at once.
Al.

Yea too much study can lead to geek so you gotta Cheers! every now and then lol!
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AL

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PostSubject: Re: Introduce Yourself Here   Mon Jun 09, 2008 4:28 am

Damn right, Stret! Cheers!
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Aaron
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PostSubject: Re: Introduce Yourself Here   Mon Jun 09, 2008 9:34 am

AL wrote:
Oh, no, no. I am taking a break from the PhD. I'm exhausted from taking too many things on at once. What a poindexter! My PhD is about the psychology of religion, specifically differences in thinking styles (rational vs experiential) and tendency towards different types of religiosity/spirituality. I dont know if you remember, but I got people on DD to fill out some questionnaires for me at one stage. Just a little pilot to see if the questions worked.

I'll PM you.
Al.

Sounds very interesting. Have you read any of the work of people like James Fowler (Stages of Faith), Jane Loevinger or Suzanne Cook-Greuter (Stages of Ego Development)?

I found the Suzanne Cook-Greuter link to be especially interesting.

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Schizophretard

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PostSubject: Re: Introduce Yourself Here   Tue Jun 10, 2008 6:46 am

ReinGatto wrote:
Wandered Off wrote:
Another refugee from Dynamic Deism. What's with all these people who start boards on Deism and then go all personal theist on us? Wink Just kidding...

Well, in my version of Deism, I don't see God as a consciousness but a force, and I'm not settled on whether it even has awareness as we think of it. I get no sense that we are being "watched" any more than, say, snails are. I haven't figured out which 'branch' exactly that fits best under, but labels are just little boxes that never quite fit anyway.

Born into a fundamentalist Southern Baptist family, I managed to get over that in college, but I was a rather bitter agnostic for years. I'm still agnostic (aren't we all?) but less bitter, though still occasionally grumpy.

WO
Jerry

I'm an agnostic too. By force, I'm assuming you mean energy? And yeah, I don't believe that a god is watching me. If he was, I'd flip him the bird every five second. Actually, I guess if that happened then god could be a "Bird-Watcher".

Though if he really wanted to bird watch, he should go to Wal-Mart. I've even spotted Sea Gulls there. scratch

I've actually flipped God the bird multiple times. I like to show him who's boss. Twisted Evil
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Logan



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PostSubject: Hi   Wed Jul 16, 2008 10:15 pm

I'd like to say hello to everyone here, and introduce myself. As I have a introduction that I wrote previously for my myspace account (I only hang out there once in a while to check out bands) I figure I might as well save some time and recycle some of that with some appropriate additions for Panendeism.org. So here goes. Hope you enjoy, hope it is not too much, but I've had a complex life.


Who Am I:

I was born in 1971. As a teen I eventually ended up with fairly eclectic occult interests and involvement which painfully led to spending several bummer years (over a decade) as a dedicated, very studious, Born Again Christian and Apologist, even writing (among other things) a large book of 5 point Calvinist Reformed systematic theology that I gave away freely. I worked off and on in Xtian bookstores, collected and studied hundreds of Xtian books, debated, etc. I even originally met my wife in an Xtian bookstore she was working at which I was visiting. We married in 1998. Eventually (August 2001), my wife and I both left religion behind after a lot of further study and thought. Writing that systematic helped to crystalize what we believed in at the time and helped us to see some of the appalling things in the Bible that were unacceptable, contradictory, etc. We actually studied ourselves right out of Christianity. We both have a deep hatred for organized "revealed" religion at this point (I particularly have a real intensity about the subject, and recommend people read THE END OF FAITH, Religion, Terror, and the Future of Reason by Sam Harris), but that has not stopped our study in various areas. We have come to have an interest in Panendeism through our studies in Taoism, Deism, early metaphysical ideas in Brahmism / Vedic Hinduism, etc. I ran across this site through searches online while studying Panentheism. My wife and I have been basically Deist's with some Taoistic underpinnings since leaving Christianity and we find some sort of Panendeism to be in the direction of where are thoughts are at.

What else. My wife and I our both dedicated Metalers. I’m a life long Metalhead/Hard Rock guy. I'm also a writer (more on that later). Favorite bands looks something like this: Iron Maiden, Dio, W.A.S.P., Arch Enemy, Opeth, The Doors, Jimi Hendrix, Black Sabbath (all era's), Grand Magus, Eternal Elysium, Acid King, 18 Speed Tranny (a.k.a. Analog Machine), Kula Shaker, RUSH, among others. These days I spend much of my free time doing what I always have done, which is mainly listening to 80's Metal, & watching movies. We have a large dvd collection.

I've been a writer over the years and have worked in various fields therein. Worked with an online music mag for a few years, did some live concert photo shoots, some interviews, reviews, etc. Currently I'm dealing with a lot of various health issues (polycystic kidney disease being one of the main ones), and so I'm now working on a novel of apocalyptic fiction. I'll probably try to pursue fictional writing (with some good rational overtones) the rest of my life. I can get intense at times over subjects I have a passion for, but over all I'm a fairly laid-back person. I'm reclusive most of the time. I'm not much of a socializer, and, except for concerts I prefer small gatherings of only a couple people when I do. I'm somewhat of a Misanthrope. If Shangri-La was real, I would probably prefer to live there (Shangri-La as in the fictional place described in the 1933 novel Lost Horizon by British author James Hilton).

Some Personal Motto’s/Inspirations for me are: The Strong Beat the Weak, The Smart Beat the Strong, & Naturalistic Fate Beats All (i.e., nature determines, naturalistic determinism). And: The Beauty In Nature Is Matched By The Cruelty Therein. And: Retributive Justice "Lex Talionis" The Law Of Retaliation, Let The Punishment Fit The Crime.

The Meaning of Life Is: Survival of the fittest. And by “fittest” I mean having a rational, nature based balance in life, and not just brute strength or weak pacifism. Leading a balance life led by reason is what life and real strength are about.

Politically: I'm neither conservative nor liberal. My wife and I both find Minarchist Libertarianism to be a more practical and realistic option. FREEDOM TO A LIBERTARIAN MEANS THIS: THAT EVERY PERSON IS THE ABSOLUTE OWNER OF HIS OR HER OWN LIFE AND SHOULD BE FREE TO DO WHATEVER HE OR SHE WISHES WITH THEIR OWN PERSON OR PROPERTY, AS LONG AS THEY RESPECT THAT SAME FREEDOM IN OTHERS. What this amounts to is that my wife and I are Libertarians that don't care for the existing FASCIST POLICE STATE that is the U.S.A.

We would like to see a nation consisting of Sovereign Republics (Sovereign States), each with the freedom to be either more conservative or more liberal, yet bound together over basic agreed upon human rights, in a more Switzerland like Confederacy, or Tribalism, etc.,
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Helium



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PostSubject: Re: Introduce Yourself Here   Wed Jul 16, 2008 11:21 pm

An interesting journey.

Nice to meet ya.

Some similarities from other deists around these posts, being the aspect of ex-born again and especially the tie to Libertarianism which seems prevelant.

You'll likely find that we share a lot of similar views on actual deism.

You'll also find me completely respecting the religion of my parents (God rest their souls!), granted that it was about as moderate as you could get (United Church).

As far as Libertarianism, again perhaps being Canada, where not having a gun in an urban area is still the norm and not the other way around, let's just say I admire the trait of personal responsibility but most certainly have disagreed with many a Libertarian 'round these parts on how personal responsibility should be interpreted politically!

Anyway, that's a bit 'bout me.
Cheers and welcome!
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PostSubject: Re: Introduce Yourself Here   Thu Jul 17, 2008 2:20 am

Logan wrote:
We actually studied ourselves right out of Christianity.
Me too. Welcome.
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Aaron
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PostSubject: Re: Introduce Yourself Here   Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:15 am

Hi Logan welcome. That's an interesting combination of 80's death metal and born again Christianity. Smile What did you're born again friends think of your taste in music?

I think you'll find that we all pretty much agree on the importance of reason on this forum but usually not much else. Smile Personally I think that's one of the beautiful things about a philosophy based on free-thought. It liberates people to go in all different directions.

Anyway glad you found us. Feel free to ask questions or jump right in to any discussions that interest you.

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