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 Human Evolution Speeding Up, Study Says

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Aaron
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PostSubject: Human Evolution Speeding Up, Study Says   Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:57 pm

I thought that this might be permanent to some of the discussions that we've had on the nature of the evolution of consciousness.

Quote :
John Roach
for National Geographic News
December 11, 2007

Explosive population growth is driving human evolution to speed up around the world, according to a new study.

The pace of change accelerated about 40,000 years ago and then picked up even more with the advent of agriculture about 10,000 years ago, the study says.

And while humans are evolving quickly around the world, local cultural and environmental factors are shaping evolution differently on different continents.

"We're evolving away from each other. We're getting more and more different," said Henry Harpending, an anthropologist at the University of Utah in Salt Lake City who co-authored the study.

For example, in Europe natural selection has favored genes for pigmentation like light skin, blue eyes, and blond hair. Asians also have genes selected for light skin, but they are different from the European ones.

"Europeans and Asians are both bleached Africans, but the way they got bleached is different in the two areas," Harpending said.

He and colleagues report the finding this week in the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

The rest of the article is here...
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/12/071211-human-evolution.html

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PostSubject: Re: Human Evolution Speeding Up, Study Says   Fri Dec 14, 2007 6:32 am

Interesting!
I wonder how you tie in the evolution of our consciousness with what the passage focuses on: micro evolution within sub-species (races?) of human beings. This is another reason why after reading the Selfish Gene, I'm still unconvinced about the whole "meme" concept.

I don't think that we can equate the psychological developments with biological ones; just like it is futile to adequately describe the phenomenon of "hunger"--that occurs only in biologic organisms--in strict molecular tems. Genes are unique replicating molecules that have taken on whole new properties that are no longer satisfactorily described merely as physical or chemical processes (transcendence in Integral speak); and likewise, our consciusness (or what Wilber calls the "noosphere") is a whole new arena where it is unfair to apply concepts from the organic world.

Instead of inventing such clumsy words as meme (to rhyme with gene) why not just simply say that human beings have "ideas" that they spread around and some of those ideas become more popular and become inshrined in our culture for longer periods than other, and a lot of our new ideas are essentially built up on these previously stable ideas that have been carried over through generations.

The above is just as sophisticated a conception of ideas as Richard Dawki'ns notion of memes; except that this observation is so common place that to even mention it ashames me for iterating the blatantly obvious.

But more than that, I disagree with equateing Ideas/memes with genes or genetic evolution because, just like social Darwinism, the whole process inevitably makes smart people dunces when they unintentionally start applying biological determinism (admittedly not as rigid as inorganic determinism) to the realm of ideas/memes.
This is how you get your stages of consciousness in Spiral Dynamics or Eastern mysticism and its determinate stages of spiritual evolution.

And this has been where I've consistently argued with you, in that I do not consider development of consciousness, after maturity is reached, as vertical, linear, or hierarchic. Instead, I claim that ideas are championed and internalized by rational human adults on a horizontal and non-linear plane hopscotching between various paradigms--unless they accept systemic subjectivism, but thats another story.
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PostSubject: Re: Human Evolution Speeding Up, Study Says   Fri Dec 14, 2007 10:36 am

I'm not going to defend meme theory or the Spiral Dynamics model's use of the meme theory terminology. I think it's a useful idea and it's got it's place but it's not as all encompassing as Dawkins maked it out to be.

Spiral Dynamics is the only developmental model that uses meme theory terminology and it doesn't really need to. There are literally dozens of other developmental models out there that don't associate themselves with meme theory.

As far as the evolution of consciousness is concerned, one statement stood out for me in the article...

Quote :
"We're evolving away from each other. We're getting more and more different," said Henry Harpending

If that's true biologically, and IMO there is an integral link between biological systems and consciousness, then perhaps our consciousness is evolving away from each other across cultural lines. Or perhaps "Typologies" are the consciousness equivalent to biological races?

Averroes wrote:
I don't think that we can equate the psychological developments with biological ones;

Why not? Psychological states are related to, or at least correlate with, biological states don't they? At least that's what the neuro-biologists say.

Averroes wrote:
Genes are unique replicating molecules that have taken on whole new properties that are no longer satisfactorily described merely as physical or chemical processes (transcendence in Integral speak); and likewise, our consciousness (or what Wilber calls the "noosphere") is a whole new arena where it is unfair to apply concepts from the organic world.

IMO biology and consciousness have an integral or nondual relationship with one another. I don't think that either one of them are absolutely determined. I think that they are both linked to a near infinitude of possibilities that allow for multiple emergent possibilities.

Averroes wrote:
And this has been where I've consistently argued with you, in that I do not consider development of consciousness, after maturity is reached, as vertical, linear, or hierarchic. Instead, I claim that ideas are championed and internalized by rational human adults on a horizontal and non-linear plane.

That's not what the empirical research has shown (so far).

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PostSubject: Re: Human Evolution Speeding Up, Study Says   Fri Dec 14, 2007 3:26 pm

Aaron wrote:
Why not? Psychological states are related to, or at least correlate with, biological states don't they? At least that's what the neuro-biologists say.

Yes, psychological growth in young immature humans does have its correlates in neurological growth. What I meant to say was that just because human body adapts to, or further differentiates with respect to, particular climatic conditions does not necessarily mean that human minds are also differentiating under different environments.


Aaron wrote:
IMO biology and consciousness have an integral or nondual relationship with one another. I don't think that either one of them are absolutely determined. I think that they are both linked to a near infinitude of possibilities that allow for multiple emergent possibilities.


There is something to be said about group intelligence, or innate biological factors consistently producing different IQs. I've been reading The Bell Curve lately, and in it the authors make a statistical comparison between poverty and intelligence. And I must say that assuming their statistics are gathered without much error, they make a fairly good argument. That is, after eliminating the socio-economic bias, the authors show us that innate biological/neurological traits often yield outcomes that a society is hard pressed to change but will in effect fail to do so on account that those so called deficiencies are not so much an outcome of environment, but that of birth.

The article that you quoted from National Geographic was simply mentioning differentiation of skin and face types; and given the kind of harrasment authors usually receive in the media, it is next to impossible for anyone to even talk about equating IQs with genes. However, it would appear that as far as intelligence is concerned, and also many other traits that we call "talents" (such as playing music, crafting a sculpture, throwing a ball, writing a novel) all probably have something to do with innnate gifts. However, I still see no evidence presented anywhere that adult human beings develop their ideas in a linear hierarchic way.
All I see is grafting and cherry picking.

Aaron wrote:
That's not what the empirical research has shown (so far).
Our disagreement is not on the early developmental stages that reach completion somewhere between the age of 15-19 to 21. However, where I disagree with models such as SD or I-I is in their re-imposition of the neorological/psychological developmental hierarchy upon grownups after theyve universally gone through the identified developmental stages. Thus, they say that human consciousness (after reaching adulthood) if it develops further that it must go through certain phases/stages; whereas I'm arguing that I see no such evidence of developmental stages post form-op or post conventional development in late teenage years. After that, say from 21 yrs. till death, discounting the development of age related or accidental handicaps, it is my observation that humans end up internalizing various paradigms (that do roughly correlate with previous stages of development) that can be integrated or rejected by them without much determinism in the process. In otherwords, they may skip a stage because essentially there are no stages of development--post form-op--and all that adult humans are doing (if they are willing to do or if their changed circumstance compell them to do) is simply create hyperlinks to other paradigms that knitted together in their minds quite haphazardly non-systematically. Thus you could have an environmental fanatic that believes in non-violence who also endorses the destruction of human property and potential lives of whalers in the Antartic ocean; or some nativist conservative who believes in minimal government with regards to economic policies but would enthusiastically encourage the same government to enforce a gay marriage ban; or it is easy for people to take pride in the tradition of their country and constitutional guarantess that prohibit incarication of any human without charges being brought against them and then turn around and start apologizing for the massive detention of the Japanese during World War II, just because a bomb goes off in a major city.
All I see is non-systematic reasoning, not higher stages of cognizance. In effect, I don't see the difference between the mindset of American secular conservatives vs. the fanatical conservatives of Middle East vs. the superstitious conservatives of Africa. Their civilizations are technologically at different levels, and yet they all have the same psyche even as they live in different political climates. And when individuals from such groups transform, on that rare occasion, there can be a transformation either way from a nation-warrior to a class-warrior; or from a merchantile denyer of ill effects of pollution on humans and their environment, in the name of the allmighty commerce, who then converts into a green to a former member of greenpeace who then publically proclaims himself a "Skeptical Environmentalist" with regards to the doomsday scenarios that we've been bombarded with ever since the 60's novel "The Silent Spring" or the expositions such as the "Population Bomb" etc. etc.
For instance, Bjorn Lamborg is still a socialist, but he does not agree with the rigid prescriptions of the environmentalists; instead, he openly proclaim that we've been increasingly meeting our goals worldwide and humans are living much better lives all across the world, and secondly, the key to environmental safety is rapid economic growth generated through capitalism that would not just lift the third world economies out of poverty but then give them the proper infrastructure and resources to not just regulate human pollution but the more devastating environmental factors that cripple their lives on a dayly basis.
In contrast, Thomas Friedman of NY Times proclaims himself a free marketier and then laments the lack of expenditure of US government in technology; or the conservatives who started off advocating the abolishment of the dept. of education to using it to impose their own nation building projects upon America. Or from Baptists of the 18th century who were strictly opposed to any chruch-state intermingling to the Baptists of 20th century who've publically endorsed Bush's faith based initiative that allowed to government to tax our incomes and distribute it through religious institutions--provided that they were not part of some extreme fringe group, which is a provision that gives government the authority to arbitrarily define what an extremist of fringe group is and then to discriminate against it--and interference in religious affairs unheard of since prior to independence.

The point is that this criss cross of ideas is not hierarchic, people are not evolving or devolving up or down the ladder of consciousness. Intead, they are all jumping across, accepting or rejecting, various paradigms flatly placed in front of them. Thus they move on to other fields, not to higher grounds.
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PostSubject: Re: Human Evolution Speeding Up, Study Says   Fri Dec 14, 2007 5:51 pm

Averroes, the general idea behind the evolution or development of consciousness doesn't have to do with the development of "ideas" (or memes) or ideologies. It has to do with complexity of thought and personal experience among many other things that lead to different types of "ideas" or ideologies.

Also the stages of conscious development transcend but include the lower stages so that people are constantly moving up and down the "spiral" of consciousness. Generally speaking people can't move up to a higher stage until it has emerged. In other words my 1 year old can't think at a "self-aware" level of cognitive development yet, however I'm fully capable of acting like a 1 year old at times, as my wife will surely vouch for. Smile

If you have the time I'd highly recommend you read the following.
9 Levels of Increasing Embrace
It goes into wonderful detail describing some of the psychological characteristics involved in ego development.

There is also a very good site with a wealth of information about Spiral Dynamics some of which you may have not read before. Mr. Cowan answers a lot of the questions better than I ever could. Also, I find his presentation of SD far more technically advanced and less watered down than either Don Beck or Ken Wilber's presentations of the theory.

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PostSubject: Re: Human Evolution Speeding Up, Study Says   Fri Dec 14, 2007 6:13 pm

Aight! The sources you provide look interesting. I'll read them, ponder over them, and then get back to you. Who knows, maybe I'll buy into the premises of SD or the evolution of consciousness post post-convention.
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PostSubject: Re: Human Evolution Speeding Up, Study Says   Fri Dec 14, 2007 6:25 pm

Averroes wrote:
All I see is non-systematic reasoning, not higher stages of cognizance. In effect, I don't see the difference between the mindset of American secular conservatives vs. the fanatical conservatives of Middle East vs. the superstitious conservatives of Africa.

It's important to remember that development isn't monolithic. In other words people develop differently in different areas of consciousness.

From wikipedia regarding "Lines of Development".
Quote :
According to Wilber, all holons have multiple lines of development, or intelligences—in fact, over two dozen have been observed. They include cognitive, ethical, aesthetic, spiritual, kinesthetic, affective, musical, spatial, logical-mathematical, karmic, etc. One can be highly developed cognitively (cerebrally smart) without being highly morally developed (as in the case of Nazi doctors). However, Wilber acknowledges, you cannot be highly morally developed without the pre-requisite cognitive development. So not all of the developmental lines are ontologically equivalent.

Regarding the above example of the secular American conservative, vs. the fanatical conservatives of the Middle East, vs. the superstitious conservatives of Africa, the comparisons just aren't specific enough. If you had specific examples of these characters like George W. Bush vs. Osama bin Laden vs. Edi Amin it might be easier to address how their actions and psychological profile match up with their existential conditions.

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PostSubject: Re: Human Evolution Speeding Up, Study Says   Fri Dec 14, 2007 9:19 pm

Averroes wrote:
Interesting!
This is another reason why after reading the Selfish Gene, I'm still unconvinced about the whole "meme" concept.

Like Einstein with Quantum Theory, Dawkins never saw the full potential of his own brain-child. Others have developed the original metaphor into a nascent science of its own. Memetics is an integral part of my Deist worldview. Here's a couple of items from one of my essays:

<<Memes are mental packages of information, similar to bits, and bytes, and words, and symbols. Metaphysical ideas and concepts may be compared metaphorically to physical genetic information. Information in the form of “Memes” follows basically the same logical rules as information in the form of genes (chemical DNA). Ideas seem to evolve and replicate and mutate in a manner similar to a virus. Therefore, in IE theory, Memes are a part of the ultimate “reality” that includes matter and energy and information.>>

<<Memetics is a post-genetic approach to evolutionary models of information transfer based on the concept of the Meme. ~A "Meme" is a hypothetical unit of cultural information, analogous to the Gene as a unit of biological information. Both forms of information are passed along from one generation to the next by means of replication. Conscious information is knowledge, and shared knowledge is the basis of human culture. ~Memetics is a fruitful new way of looking at Cultural Evolution. Just as Genetics revolutionized biology by establishing the mechanism underlying Darwinian evolution, Memetics promises to give us an understanding of the "mechanism" behind cultural changes over time.
>>

You might also notice an inter-relationship with the concepts of "In-Form-Action" and "Enformy".
http://panendeism.userboard.net/science-and-nature-f6/enformy-a-pre-physical-theory-t215.htm#1579
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PostSubject: Re: Human Evolution Speeding Up, Study Says   Fri Dec 14, 2007 10:34 pm

Averroes wrote:


Instead of inventing such clumsy words as meme (to rhyme with gene) why not just simply say that human beings have "ideas" that they spread around and some of those ideas become more popular and become inshrined in our culture for longer periods than other, and a lot of our new ideas are essentially built up on these previously stable ideas that have been carried over through generations.

I don't get it - you say that 'meme' is a clumsy word and then spend a paragraph listing a definition of it. Is not a paragraph more clumsy than one word?

What issue do you take with Dawkins original idea, that a meme is simply, "a unit of cultural transmission, or a unit of imitation."?
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PostSubject: Re: Human Evolution Speeding Up, Study Says   Sun Dec 16, 2007 6:05 am

Aaron wrote:
Averroes, the general idea behind the evolution or development of consciousness doesn't have to do with the development of "ideas" (or memes) or ideologies. It has to do with complexity of thought and personal experience among many other things that lead to different types of "ideas" or ideologies.

I don't disagree with this, as far as it goes; which is why I think that I'm at least at the yellow level, not withstanding your disaproval of my contention (and I'm not boasting either, merely proclaiming what I perceive to be the level of my cognitive, moral, and esthetic development). But...

Aaron wrote:
Also the stages of conscious development transcend but include the lower stages so that people are constantly moving up and down the "spiral" of consciousness. Generally speaking people can't move up to a higher stage until it has emerged. In other words my 1 year old can't think at a "self-aware" level of cognitive development yet, however I'm fully capable of acting like a 1 year old at times, as my wife will surely vouch for.

This has been the source of our disagreement, since we first began to debate on this issue on dynamicdeism. I want proof that people generally (or according to SDers and Integralists: always) develop towards higher levels of consciousness in a linear (or bipolar spiral surging upwards) hierarchy. As a matter of fact, if you recall from our earliest discussions on the topic of SD, when you explained the process to me I immediately identified its affinity with both Hegelian and Marxist thought, and while there is no mention of either of the two in Integral Spirituality, nevertheless, in SES Wilber clearly states that he builds his whole "system" upon Idealist metaphysics, corresponding to the Non-Dual Monism of Vedanta, and that while he disparages Marx for his reductionism of Hegel, nevertheless, because of the common epistemic affiliations, he does end up praising communism for its noble effort of worldwide consciousness (which, needless to say, I find so repulsive an idea that I won't even touch it now or I'll end up writing several pages of diatribe before I remind myself that nobody would bother reading it Wink ).

PS. I haven't read the links that you provided. I'll get back to you on that later.


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PostSubject: Re: Human Evolution Speeding Up, Study Says   Sun Dec 16, 2007 6:47 am

If you recall my model from the thread on "Loevinger's Stages of Ego Development," you'll see that it does a much better job of showing the various states (not stages, as I don't believe there are further stages of development beyond form-op) of human developement, represented by various lines in SD, as it shows all three main "flatland" paradigms that are dominant in human beings, which roughly correspond to the three overall stages of cognitive development from preconventinal, conventional, to postconventional; however, that is where the analogy ends.
The main difference between my "systemic subjectivism" based upon ontology of praxeology (as further developed by me, which substantially differes from its use by libertarian economists and philosophers) and Integral and Spiral psychology is that I do not confuse states for stages.

The main confusion on part of the SD'er is that they think that just because human beings are thrust into an increasingly complex society--primarily due to technological transformations that results in a socio-economic translations across the three major flatlands of in my model--that somehow it results in the transformation of human consciousness as our thoughts become more complex. Hence they confuse translations for transformations or stages of development.

I disagree! And on two counts:

1. There is no transformation within a flatland; however, there does occur translation of folks within the three overarching paradigms that I've generally labelled egoism/narcissim, nihilism, and altruism, corresponding in my model to the flatlands of It&Me, Me&We, and We&It, respectively.
That is why I strongly reject the idea of imposing infant/adolescent cognitive development onto adult human beings: This is not how ordinarly human beings (mature and sane) usually advance their thinking; their progress, post convention, is neither linear nor vertical, but non-linear and horizontal.
(The only genuine transformation is when people exchange one flatland paradigm for another, but if they accept the tranformal-operational paradigm of systemic-subjectivsm then no further tranformation takes places, merely translations based upon existential conditions).

The SDers do not seem to understand that all that really changes is not human consciousness, but simply its manifestation/translation within an increasingly complex society and economy that results due to the transformation of technology (whether due to human innovation/destruction or environmental benefits/disasters). And here is a proof of why they must be wrong in equating adult human consciousness with infant/adolescent cognitive development:

According to all developmental data, once a human being advances from a pre-op to concrete-op to formal-op, the advancement/transcendece is permanent and irreversible; and it is also strictly linear and hierarchic. However, according to all the sources on SD that you've provided, and I've read so far, the so called development/transcendence of stages on the spiral ladder are reversible--although they cannot be leaped over/under--and this is what Wilber explicitly states too.

Now, here is why they are wrong:
With changes in circumstances (usually technological, but it could also be correlated to political--socio-economic--upheavel), if human beings at higher memetic stages (say, Orange or Green) can spiral down to lower stages (say, red or blue, irrespective) then clearly this is a proof that no true "transformation" ever took place in the psyche. All that happened was that the same "species" of psyche adapted to a new environment, without evolving/transcending into something else. That is, unlike the Piaget's or Loevinger's "stages" of infant/adolescent development that are true evolutionary uplifts within human psyche and are thus irreversible, these adaptations of human beings to changed environments are merely translations corresponding to the the transformation of technology, environment, and/or socio-economic conditions.

This explains why it is possible for people to leap over/under a whole memetic stage. For instance, someone on the level of Green could then jump back to either blue or Red, without necessarily de-transforming through orange.

2. The short comming of SD is in its lack of appreciation of the three conflicting paradigms of flatland, or what I call fractured rationality--since all humans at the formal-operational level** (i.e. all sane adults) are essentially rational beings. If you look at the SD spiral, it is simply moving up and down intra flatland "Me&We". Or what they'll call "I&We." And this is what leads towards a necessary error in their logic, whereby they see translations as genuine transformations.
(Which is why I say that I'm at the yellow, in their schemata, and at the same time I deny that there is such a "stage" as yellow--not withstanding that what they generally call their second tier of yellow+ corresponds to my fifith stage of trans-form-op in addition to Piaget's previous four; however, as I've repeatedly stated previously, this fifth stage is really not a new stage, in that it is reversible, unlike the previous four stages that are generally irreversible, and so it is simply an integrated way of looking at reality wherein no paradigm change occurs, for as in Integral speak: All flatlands are included and transcended).

And that is why I equate that with Ataraxia (a western/rational equivalent to the eastern mystical nirvana/moksha) when systemic subjectivist view point is not just understood but internalized.

**I do realize that according to some developmentalist psychologists not all humans necessarily advance to the form-op level, but that is where I disagree. In think that all adult humans generally do have the capacity for formal operation, however, what happens is that due to environemental reasons they end up being fixated with one of the three two-dimensional flatlands (although, in some areas they may be in two seperate flatlands) wherein the vast majority of human beings are stuck--including the integralists. However, with a systematic understanding of philosophy, and its conjunctive correlates of politics, ethics, and esthetics, and their correlates as econmics, analytical psychology, and anthropology, and the further integration of objective nerological psychiatry or behavioral psychology, along with biology, and cosmology, what you get is an integrated paradigm of transformaloperational.
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PostSubject: Re: Human Evolution Speeding Up, Study Says   Mon Dec 17, 2007 12:02 pm

I haven't forgot about this thread. I just haven't had the time to respond properly to it yet.

Averroes wrote:
Aaron wrote:
Also the stages ofconscious development transcend but include the lowerstages so that people are constantly moving up anddown the "spiral" of consciousness. Generally speakingpeople can't move up to a higher stage until it hasemerged. In other words my 1 year old can't think at a "self-aware" level of cognitive development yet, however I'm fully capable of acting like a 1 year old at times, as my wife will surely vouch for.

This has been the source of our disagreement, since we first began to debate on this issue on dynamicdeism. I want proof that people generally (or according to SDers and Integralists: always) develop towards higher levels of consciousness in a linear (or bipolar spiral surging upwards) hierarchy.

It's not just SDers or Integralists that claim that people develop heirachically in waves (not linearly). There are dozens of empirical models that make that same claim.

As far as the "bi-polarity" of development that's a hypothesis of Clare Graves and I don't completely agree with it (at least the way it's often presented).

I still think that dialectics are a good way of understanding the way systems work. However not all systems are strictly dialectic in the way Fichte, Hegel or Marx envisioned them. They tended to take a more macro, holistic approach to the application of dialectical systems theory when that's not how systems truly work. Systems are holonic. In other words, they are part/wholes, not just wholes.

The activity of the parts helps to create and guide in the evolution of the whole just as much as the activity of the whole helps to guide the creation and evolution of the various parts. Therefore one can't apply these broad dialectical categories on something of the scale of societal stages of development. IMO the truth is, that individual stages are composed of a broad array of systems of thought and that the dialectics play themselves out at a much smaller scale.

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PostSubject: Re: Human Evolution Speeding Up, Study Says   Mon Dec 17, 2007 12:14 pm

Averroes wrote:
Aaron wrote:
Averroes, the general idea behind the evolution or development of consciousness doesn't have to do with the development of "ideas" (or memes) or ideologies. It has to do with complexity of thought and personal experience among many other things that lead to different types of "ideas" or ideologies.

I don't disagree with this, as far as it goes; which is why I think that I'm at least at the yellow level, not withstanding your disapproval of my contention (and I'm not boasting either, merely proclaiming what I perceive to be the level of my cognitive, moral, and aesthetic development). But...

I don't disapprove of your contention, however I am very skeptical. The claim that you are making is not something that one can really know without professional testing. It's sort of like claiming that you have an IQ of 170 because you feel that you're "very smart". The assertion may turn out to be ultimately true, however it's not something that should be claimed without some sort of empirical evidence.

Also remember that cognitive development is only one thing. Things like ego development, psycho-sexual development, moral development aesthetic development, etc. are completely different things (even though they are all inter-related). So it's possible that you have reached a yellow level of cognitive development with the ability for the understanding of broad and complex systems of thought but have only reached an "Orange" "conscientious" level of ego-development for instance.

I think if you read the Susan Cook-Greuter model some of this will become more clear.

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PostSubject: Re: Human Evolution Speeding Up, Study Says   Mon Dec 17, 2007 3:29 pm

Averroes wrote:
This explains why it is possible for people to leap over/under a whole memetic stage. For instance, someone on the level of Green could then jump back to either blue or Red, without necessarily de-transforming through orange.

States exist within structures (or stages) of consciousness. States can bounce and skip around at will within the already emergent structure. They cannot leap to areas that haven't been developed yet however.

Your assertion that adults don't develop beyond form-op is partially true. In fact most adults don't develop new structure stages after the age of 21 or so. Many adults don't even make it to form-op according to the data.

Despite this studies have shown that it is still possible for new stages of awareness to emerge as adults.


This is a spectrum that compares the terminology of Piagent, Loevinger, and Graves.


As I've said before, I'm very skeptical of the existence of "tiers" and don't believe the 3rd tiers stages even belong on this structural spectrum.

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Averroes



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PostSubject: Re: Human Evolution Speeding Up, Study Says   Tue Dec 18, 2007 5:09 am

Aaron wrote:
Your assertion that adults don't develop beyond form-op is partially true. In fact most adults don't develop new structure stages after the age of 21 or so. Many adults don't even make it to form-op according to the data.

I just want to clarify that it is not that adults don't develop beyond, form-op. It is that sane and mature human beings no longer develop hierarchially once they transition from concrete-op to form-op.
Up until that stage, all humans must go through a linear vertical progressive envelopment of hierarchic stages of consciousness. But beyond that, that is, once we've transcended these developmental stages, the progress of consciousness is not necessarily vertical. Although, I'm willing to concede that for a lot of folks that is how it must be; but not because that is how the structure of our adult consciousness evolves, but due to the fact that almost all human societies seem to be going through a similar transition (as if immitating the western history) mostly due to the hierarchic nature of technological advancement and in part due to the global influence of Western Europeans that lead towards a cataclysmic change in the orientation of all human societies/civilizations all over the globe--the impact of which (coupled with the determinist/hierarchic nature of technological advancement) ensured that all cultures would than become a hybrid of their native and western heritage.

A classic example of that would be the rise of the radical Islamist movement (Salafia) which, if taken out of its uniquely Middle Eastern garb, is nothing more than a revamp of bourgeoisie nationalism that took over Europeans during 19th century that lead towads the unification of Germany and Italy, and the identity of each nation with its state, language, culture, etc. Pan Arabism or Pan Islamism are another (hybrid) form of German Nationalism or International Workingman's Association.

The same goes for India with its Arya Samaj (Aryan Nation) reform movement that focused upon Christian style ethics, monotheism, and Muslim style universal brotherhood; or the development of Maoist Communism in China, much like elsewhere, that revolted against the past heritage of the country so militantly during the Cultural Revolution that one wonders how could anyone hate their own glorious history with such vehemence.

Thus the determinist/hierarchic nature of technological growth, and the deep imprint of Western influence over the rest of the world, may make it appear that all humans keep on advancing through various stages of development in a linear and vertical fashion, even after reaching the completion of the growth of their mental facultied, but the real reasons are the existential conditions that've thrust modern humanbeings into a common history, even if they may not be aware of it.
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PostSubject: Re: Human Evolution Speeding Up, Study Says   Tue Dec 18, 2007 10:32 am

Averroes wrote:
A classic example of that would be the rise of the radical Islamist movement (Salafia) which, if taken out of its uniquely Middle Eastern garb, is nothing more than a revamp of bourgeoisie nationalism that took over Europeans during 19th century that lead towads the unification of Germany and Italy, and the identity of each nation with its state, language, culture, etc. Pan Arabism or Pan Islamism are another (hybrid) form of German Nationalism or International Workingman's Association.

Yes, that's an interesting take on it. I've equated it more with the protestant reformation in Europe, but perhaps it's more akin to nationalism. Think

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