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 Meaning and purpose

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Aaron
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PostSubject: Re: Meaning and purpose   Thu Oct 25, 2007 7:04 pm

Well I agree with about 95% of it so I'm not doing that bad I guess. Smile
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Schizophretard

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PostSubject: Re: Meaning and purpose   Fri Oct 26, 2007 5:08 am

At the beginning of this conversation I wasn't sure rather or not we have free will. I leaned toward not having one but now after thinking really hard about your replies all day long I realize that if I believe everything happens on purpose and believe that we don't have free will I'm believing a contradiction. The reason I believe this to be a contradiction is because I can't be doing things on purpose while being a robot at the same time. I'm very confident that every action happens on purpose and therefore I'm sure that we have free will without further evidence.

When I was sure about this I realized that I must have had the wrong idea about how I make my choices. I didn't even realize it but I had a materialistic view of how the mind works. I thought of it as a computer running program. Now I realize that my mind doesn't work by computation because computation is caused by material processes but my mind is immaterial and it must work by immaterial processes. My mind being free from the causes and effects of matter opens the door to the possibility of free will.

I once told a friend that we most likely don't have free will. He said,"That's stupid because I do what I want." Then I said,"But you don't choose what you want and your choices are dependent on your wants and desires. Therefore you don't have free will." I didn't realize it until today but wants and desires are different then will. Will is an action and I have the choice of what I will to happen. For an example, lets say I want a new job. Now I have a choice rather or not I'll go through with my want and will myself to get a new job. I can say,"Screw it! I'll stay working here even though I don't want to because I do like the people I work with." or I can say,"I really like the people I work with but I really need more money to pay my bills. So, screw it! I'm getting a new job." I have a choice in this situation. I can stay or I can go. I can will this to happen or I can will that to happen. Which ever I choose is what I will to happen. I don't just have the choice to do what I want but I also have the choice to not do what I want. I count the costs then make my choice.

Even though I no long believe that our choices are caused by materialistic processes, I do believe that our choices have a cause and effect relationship to the material world and therefore still fits with my main point that everything happens on purpose if the universe has a purpose. Also, it makes my point about purpose even stronger because if the Universe was a materialistic accident we wouldn't just be lacking purpose but also free will. I believe the cause and effect relationship between the material world and the idealistic world of our minds works something like this. A situation in the material world arises with a choice that must be made(the cause) then in the idealistic world of my mind, which functions independently from the causes and effects of material processes, I count the costs then make my choice(the effect), which causes a new effect in the material world. In short it's like this: material cause, ideal effect, ideal cause, and then material effect. In this view from a materialist perspective choices will appear random because the choices can't be predetermined.

In my last reply I said,"If it is God's will that I have free will then is there any choice I can choose that is against his will?" The point I was trying to make was if I'm doing what God wills by making free choices then I can't have free will because free will would be doing something against his will. In this question I was also confusing will and want because God can will me to have free will while at the same time I can do something he doesn't want. Here is what I mean. Someday if I have a child I'll choose to allow it to make more and more of it's own choices the older it gets. So, I'll will it to have free will. There will be things I'll want for my child but my child will have the choice to do otherwise. So, God can give us free will and I believe he did. Laughing
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The Paineful Truth

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PostSubject: Re: Meaning and purpose   Fri Oct 26, 2007 1:39 pm

Yes, and if I may reiterquote: If you love something, set it free. If it returns to you, its yours. If not, it never was.

That applies to God as well.
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