Panendeism.org

Joined : 14 Sep 2007 Posts : 369 Location: : Toronto

Well I guess atheists can refrain from questioning why and how we are here, I suppose, if that's what they want to do!

Subject: Re: Deist Answer to Absurdity Fri May 09, 2008 12:21 am

I'm kind of in agreement with you on "the Omega Point". I see the universe as the opposite of the fall from Eden. Instead of everything being "perfect" at the beginning and becoming more chaotic. I see the universe as starting at maximum chaos and evolving towards perfection. Since the universe appears to be going in this direction, I see purpose and the universe doesn't seem absurd. If the universe was going in no direction at all and everything always stayed the same then it would seem absurd to me. I believe the universe is following a plan. I don't believe the universe just happened to end up this way by accident but everything happens for a reason.

So, to answer your original question of how do I reconcile the presence of Evil and the absence of Justice with their hypothesis of a teleological Designer? Well, if the universe lacked evil our lives would be pointless and absurd. If God did everything for us, solved all problems, and provided for everything that we need then there would be nothing for us to do. God only does what is necessary and we have the responsibility to do the rest. Instead of God making paradise for us, he wants us to build paradise for ourselves. He is like a father that sends his child out into the world hoping that his child will live a good life and make him proud. People appreciate things more that they worked for than what is just given to them. We must work for paradise to appreciate it. In conclusion, God creating Heaven is just as absurd as him creating Hell because a place of total goodness is just as pointless as a place of total evil. Our universe is the perfect mix of both worlds.
_________________
"I am just a figment of God's imagination." Schizophretard

"I fully comprehended the power of the human mind at the exact moment I came to the realization that I'm totally insane and have no idea what I'm talking about." Schizophretard

"I'm sorry Mrs. Pubicsmurf but aliens ate my homework assignment." Schizophretard

"I love myself so much that I quote myself." Schizophretard(:

Joined : 14 Sep 2007 Posts : 369 Location: : Toronto

Yeah, I hear you on the garden of eden.

That's a neat story to interpret.

I remember as a young 'un the litereal translation is that we were in some perfect existence until the whole snake/apple thing.

But yeah I agree with you that there was no eden.

Actually there are other ways to interpret that story so it doesn't seem so wrong. One is simply the acquision of self conciousness or awareness, that set us apart from instinctual action. It might make sense interpreted in that light.

One cautionary note though.

I do agree with you that life on earth seems to be evolving towards more complexity.

But I was reading a fascinating article in March Scientific American that the very long range future of the universe is actually very stark.

The real short of it is our local cluster of galaxies led by Adromeda will merge into one. At some point, say 100 billion years from now, all of the other billions of galaxies will actually be long out of our event horizon.

The article actually raised a juicy conundrum that scientists of that age will have to speculate on the universe without any knowldege that we now have such as the red shift of other galaxies and the radiation signature of the beginning of the universe. All that will be out of the event horizon.

The future scientists of 100 billion years unless their particularly smart might conclude that the local super cluster galazy IS the universe. Wow, man. Mind blowing. Also the eventual fate of the the local super cluster is to all end up as a black hole.

Hardly the perfect script.

But certainly a juicy script!

Subject: Re: Deist Answer to Absurdity Mon May 12, 2008 12:40 pm

I imagine by then we will be so godlike that maybe there would be nothing more for scientist to discover and/or we would be able to solve that problem. So, it maybe a perfect script.
_________________
"I am just a figment of God's imagination." Schizophretard

"I fully comprehended the power of the human mind at the exact moment I came to the realization that I'm totally insane and have no idea what I'm talking about." Schizophretard

"I'm sorry Mrs. Pubicsmurf but aliens ate my homework assignment." Schizophretard

"I love myself so much that I quote myself." Schizophretard(:

Joined : 14 Sep 2007 Posts : 369 Location: : Toronto

Yeah, god's not giving away the ending.

We wait with baited breath lol!

Subject: Re: Deist Answer to Absurdity Tue May 13, 2008 11:40 am

Joined : 14 Sep 2007 Posts : 369 Location: : Toronto

Subject: Re: Deist Answer to Absurdity Yesterday at 1:45 am

Not all Existentialists are, or were, Atheists. Kierkegaard, for example, was a rabid Protestant.

Existentialism isn't really a philosophy, or even a belief - just a preoccupation with the absurdity, and miraculousness, of existence.
_________________
“It’s time, we gave something back to the natural systems of order that have supported us, some care and tenderness, which is the most operative notion, I think – tenderness. Our isolations are gone, in the West and everywhere. We need to give some time to the arts of cherishing things we adore, before they simply vanish. Maybe it will be like learning a skill: how to live in paradise” ~ William Kittredge

Subject: Re: Deist Answer to Absurdity Yesterday at 6:41 pm

This is a proposed new entry in my Intelligent Evolution glossary. I'm not sure it will make sense to anyone but me. And it may be seen as a biased depiction of the scientific view. "Anthropic" seems to be related to the "absurdity" topic, so I put it here for objective analysis. Any suggestions for improvement will be welcomed.

ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE
A Man-oriented law of nature. ~ Evidence from many different fields of science supports the astounding realization that we live in a surprisingly finely-tuned, bio-friendly, and mind-inclined universe. Since divine design is not an orthodox axiom of modern science, scientists have been trying for years to devise an alternative mechanical (i.e. non-teleological) answer to the obvious question raised by the "appearance" of rational design: how can life and mind arise from random (i.e. irrational) processes? The most common answer today is the Multiverse Theory: that we inhabit just one of myriad worlds in an eternal and infinite regression of evolutionary experiments in world-making. Most of these "other worlds" are un-inhabitable for various reasons. So our universe is just the lucky winner in a cosmic jackpot, where our accidental awakening to consciousness reveals that this is the only place to be, if we want to live and think. Most of those alternative realities are losers in the life lottery. ~ The various Multiverse hypotheses cannot be considered scientific theories though, since we have no way to test or falsify them except via pure reasoning. So the plurality of God hypotheses are on the same footing with M theory, as non-empirical, philosophical conjectures. Hence your choice between the teleological theories and the illogical theories comes down to a matter of taste---or faith. Which makes more sense to you: life-from-life & mind-from-mind, or life & mind from eternal chaos & conflict? Which do you prefer to believe, Man is an accident, or a design? ~ See Front-Loaded Design.

Joined : 14 Sep 2007 Posts : 369 Location: : Toronto